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Bambi
Slowly Learning Gardener
Kent, England
Types of Roses9 Nov '06 11:18 pm
Ok, I'm biting the bullet here and admitting to my ignorance - throwing myself on your mercy, as it were 
I have been wondering for some time now, what do all the rose types mean, e.g. tea rose, floribunda, etc. etc. And what's the difference between a climber and a rambler?
Thank you, my friends, for your help, in advance.
Bambi
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Jack Holloway
Passionate Gardener
SEQUOIA FARM Haenertsburg South Africa
Hmm, quite a topic....10 Nov '06 2:22 am
It took me several years to come to grips with some of these patterns, Bambi, and I'm still learning, but a very worthwhile idea it is which can add to the value of the forum! Somewhere I have a short introduction I wrote. I will see if I can scan it into editable text and post it. Meanwhile we can all contribute bits of information as well.
Then there are some very worthwhile rose sites - here is one of my favourites - I've not explored these particular pages but I am certain they will be a huge help:
http://www.rosefile.com/RosePages/byClass.html
Good luck and enjoy the journey!
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Liza
gardening consultant
Waterloo, Belgium
The 8 Types of Modern Roses10 Nov '06 8:51 am
Yes, indeed, I have quite studied this topic, so dearest friend, here we go:
1- Hybrid Tea Roses
They are the most popular, and those that mostly...mystify, with the special form of their blooms, medium or large-sized, with many petals, forming a dinstinct central cone. They grow on long stems singly, or with several side buds. They look like so much the perfect Roses we buy from the Florists. They repeat well flowering, some are very scented (Peace!), and are generally quite healthy. Some of them are very tall. Here are some: La France (the first Hybrid Tea), Alec's Red, Peace/Mme A. Meilland, Papa Meilland, Pascali, Ingrid Bergman, Harry Wheatcroft (multicoloured), Ena Harkness, Elisabeh Harkness, Dutch Gold, Elina, Mister Lincoln, Henri Matisse, Cathryn McGredy.
2- The Floribunda Roses
They are my mostly loved ones, that's why they are so many in the garden. Well, because they are ideal in mixed borders,beautifully bushy, having blooms that grow on medium long stems in lovely clusters ! They perform miracles with their perennial companions, especially when the clusters' buds open all almost at once! The flowers are a little smaller than those of the Hybrid Teas'. They are healthy, repeat flowering perfectly, and some, like the lovely Iceberg, never stop...Some are beautifully scented, like Amber Queen,Gruss an Aachen, Manou Meilland, Margaret Merril. My mostly loved Floribundas are Amber Queen,Gruss an Aachen, Manou Meilland, Margaret Merril, and Iceberg! Some more excellent ones, are Bonica 82, Niccolo Paganini (Meilland), Trumpeter, and Remembrance, the last three madly red (:you can see them on page 8 of the "In Love Diary")...I dream of adding Sexy Rexy in my collection.
Some more, very well known Floribundas, are : Queen Elisabeth, Lilli Marleene, Matangi, Mountbatten, Anne Harkness, Chanelle, Oranges and Lemons (of Moosey's! -multicoloured), Masquerade (multicoloured), the short , beautiful Resensberg, Claude Monet (multicoloured), La Sevillana, Leonard De Vinci(!).
The Fairy Rose is called Polyantha in the Rose family (meaning "many/lots of flowers" in Greek), but she is in fact a sub-category (ancestor) of Floribundas, having larger clusters with smaller flowers. If she is not pruned , she becomes a Ground Cover Rose. The short Ground Covers are her cousins. Another famous Polyantha is Cecile Brunner.
3- Ground Cover Roses
They are spreading clustered Roses, sometimes normal in size , like Swany, Pink Flower Carpet/Heidetraum, Bassino/Suffolk, Knock Out,Magic Meidiland, and sometimes huge, resembling to shrubs, like those called Hybrids de Moschata/Hybrid Musks : Mozart, Ballerina, Paganini (Luis Lens). The common charasteristic of all is, that their long clustered stems are grown, like a fountain, from the center or "heart" of each plant. The most of them flower non-stop, like Ballerina, Mozart (still in bloom in the garden), Pink flower Carpet, Knock Out, Magic Meidiland.
4- Climbers and Ramblers
They are both climbing. Ramblers have much longer stems and can cover a tall tree. They bloom once , with rather small clustered flowers. Here are some : American Pillar, Bobby James, Dorothy Perkins, Excelsa, Felicite Perpetue, Rambling Rector, New Dawn, Maria Liesa (: so beautiful and floriferous! One of the parents is the same with American Pillar, that's why they look alike).
The Climbers are ideal for covering a wall, or to climb onto an Arch. They can also have flowers just like Floribundas, and they repeat flowering most of the times! Many are beautifully scented. Here are some: Altissimo (lovely in the garden ,constantly in bloom, still in bloom, covering the one side of the compost bin), Iceberg climbing, Gloire de Dijon, Guirlande d'Amour (white clustered flowered, with blooms similar but larger than The Fairie's, lightly scented, it happily thrives in our garden, covering completely an Arch -- they are two plants, actually, on both sides of the Arch), Ena Harkness climbing, Compassion, Etoile de Hollande climbing, Madame Alfred Carriere,Mermaid,Masquerade climbing(multicoloured),climbing Peace, Climbing American Beauty, Joseph' Coat (multicoloured), Lawinia.
5- Patio Roses
They are simply short Floribundas (40-50cm) , that can thrive happily in pots in the patio. I personally grow them in the front or in the middle of the border: Anna Ford, Top Marks, Douce Symphonie.
6- Miniature Roses
Tiny Roses , either clustered or not, that can thrive happily on a fresh but sunny windowsill, as indoor plants. I personally grow them in front of the border, and they are very happy.
7- Shrub Roses
They are rather tall and large, and at least one of their parents is an ancient or a wild Rose. They are mostly Species Roses . Some repeat , some don't, some are double some are not. Many are beautifully scented. Here are some : Madame Isaac Pereire, Fantin-Latour( Centifolia,called also Provence Rose), Gloire de Dijon, Roserai de l' Hay, Canary Bird, Buff Beauty, Penelope ( the last two, Hybrids de Moschata, behave like huge ground covers), Rosa Mundi, Rosa Rugosa Scabrosa,Complicata, Pink Grootendorst, Crepuscule, Ispahan/Pompon des Princes, Rosa Gallica Officinalis, Rosa Muesii Geranium,Mutabilis, Reine des Violettes, Sarah Van Fleet, Rosa Rugosa Alba, Stanwell Perpetual, Ferdinand Pichard (multicoloured), Charles de Mills, Cerise Bouquet, Rosa Banksiae Lutea (lovely, double clustered , lemony yellow flowers!), Honorine de Brabant(multicoloured), Imperatrice Josephine, Konigin von Danemark/Queen of Denmark.
Many of the above shrubs are thriving happily in Moosey's Rose Garden .
8- The English Roses
They are simply the David Austin Roses. He married an Ancient beautiful Rose, strongly scented , repeating or not, double flowered, with a Hybrid Tea or a Floribunda Rose, healthy, scented or not, repeating. And their..baby, is the famous English/David Austin Rose, very scented, very repeating, quite healthy, and ..very double, usually quite tall. Just go to Moosey's Rose Garden, to admire some of the best :
http://www.mooseyscountrygarden.com/rose-garden/garden-roses.html . And, of course, you can also visit the David Austin Rose site: http://davidaustinroses.com
P.S.
I should underline here, that my analysis is simple, not including more scientific details, like what was the first Floribunda, or how the modern Hybrid Teas were created, or who is the parent of who.. Even more, I know that there exist hundreds and hundreds of excellent American, German, French, British, N.Zealand, Dutch Roses, belonging to each of the afformentioned categories, of which I have somewhere discovered certain in the past, but unable to remember.. And , of course, some among us , like our Jack (or any other) , could have made a far better analysis in his excellent well known style, if he only was not so busy, and dedicated to his beautiful, time-consuming profession.
And this is my mostly loved Rose site , with one of the largest, and very artistic, gallery of the loveliest of Rose pictures :
http://www.justourpictures.com/roses/companions.html
In order to have a complete profile concerning each one of the afformentioned Roses, or to see just a photo of it, just write correctly the name of the Rose in Google/images, or even better, go to this excellent site: http://www.helpmefind.com/roses
Last edited by Liza on 16 Nov '06 2:02 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Jack Holloway
Passionate Gardener
SEQUOIA FARM Haenertsburg South Africa
Simplified Rose geneology13 Nov '06 3:03 am
I found it! I had forgotten that it was a family tree, so I photographed it instead of scanning. Hope you manage! I based it on information from a great many books, the backbone coming from Philips and Rix’s The Quest for the Rose.
In looking at it I immediately see several weaknesses – where do the noisettes come from? They are the result of an early 19th century cross between a R. chinensis strain and R. moschata. What about ramblers and climbers? Many of the climbing genes in modern roses are merely sports, which is why we get a bush (HT) ‘Peace’ but also a climbing ‘Peace’. Ramblers can have a wide and varied range of parents – mostly they were deliberately bred to be – well: ramblers! And obviously along the way there are several – no, many – other species roses that were introduced into breeding programs for various reasons.
And no mention of the MOSS ROSES. They are merely sports which contain excessively developed glands on the flower stalk and ovary. Mostly they are of the Centifolia class – why I don’t know.
Today the old distinctions of HT (large-flowered) and Floribunda (cluster-flowered) seem to be falling away as rose-growers and (ESPECIALLY!) marketers group roses into more specific groupings based on their growth patterns or other habits. Often there are closely fought plant breeder’s rights involved: the South African who tried to claim Canna ‘Phaeson’ as his own and market it as ‘Durban’ (and lost on an international stage!) has made a fortune from the rights to the ‘Flower Carpet’ series of roses. The ultimate marketing exercise…
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Liza
gardening consultant
Waterloo, Belgium
A perfetct mathematical approach!13 Nov '06 3:47 am
Jack, this is absolutely perfect ! This is a different, very special approach, to the same topic! Showing the ...ancient ancestors of all the afformentioned by me Shrub Type Roses ((mostly Species Roses), and how all the Modern Roses and Hybrids, Floribundas , Teas, Climbers, Ramblers, Moschatas/Musks are created! Your mathematical/scientific mind is really expressed here perfectly, dear Jack!
I really enjoyed your quality work, like reading a page of a good book, by seeing it in full screen! And , it is true, that reading the same things you just posted in my huge Rose Book ( : The Royal Horticultural Society Encyclopedia of Roses, by Charles and Brigid Quest-Ritson), I was saying to myself I need to put them in mathematical order,which you just did!Thank you so much!
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Liza
gardening consultant
Waterloo, Belgium
Rose Breeders..15 Nov '06 9:45 am
Bambi, your demand for precision on the different Rose modern groups , "happily " coincided with my ...sad Autumnal moods... And it proved to be a blessing! Because I concentrated on all those things I studied the last 6-7 years! I found a consolation in this dear study, by simply not thinking about my worries, but by arranging intellectually my experience on the various Roses. Thank you for this!
Now. All my Floribundas in the garden are ordered after a long thought and search, considering their health, height, and colour. The English ones are ordered from the breeder called Fryer in England, who has excellent Roses of All types, and in a certain way they are grouped in his nursery in the same way they are described here by me . Five excellent Floribundas I did not mention in the essay, are still in bloom in the garden : Phab Gold (golden yellow) , Summer Dream (coral pink), Brilliant Pink Iceberg (Iceberg sport), Piccolo (corally red), and John Hood (medium pink). All five are bought from Fryer's nurseries, as well, and are great performers! Please , consider this nursery, before you decide on Floribundas:
http://www.fryers-roses.co.uk
Now about the Harkness Family . Yes indeed, they used to be very productive (and still are)! If you want , you can order directly from them their famous Hybrid Teas (...and excellent Floribundas, of course! My Amber Queen and Margaret Merril dearest babies are their...inspiration! Maybe more...) : http://www.roses.co.uk
But, generally, so many famous Rose families/Rose Breeders -- and not only French and English ones -- contributed with their excellent new Roses everywhere in Europe, the U.S. , and the McGredy family in Ireland and N.Zealand!
Good luck and inspiration on your choice!
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It seems that the Harkness family were very prominent in the horticultural/rose world at one time, to have so many named after them!!
